Having been on several rides now, here are some thoughts and experiences from the journey; along with suggestions to possibly improve the rides (which are already amazeballs).
The following is not meant to state anything good/bad, or otherwise regarding anyone. Everyone is different, and everyone has a different comfort level with their cars. This is only about my observations, how I have tried to have the best experience on rides, and how I believe we can set ourselves up for everyone to have the best experience on the rides.
Everyone is welcome to provide insight/further suggestions or thoughts to spur more suggestions; and the link at the end is for a survey I posted.
I would have to say my favorite ride was the one with a small number of cars, and everyone was fast and stayed tight.
My least favorite ride was the one with a good number of cars, and while I struggled and lagged behind the person in front of me to keep the person behind me in my rear-view, the person in front of me was trying to keep me in their rear-view while still being able to follow the group. There were enormous gaps between cars.
Between the above and a few other rides, I began to "keep a book" on the other cars to know who I would try and ride near and who I would try and avoid.
On April 2nd, we had a ride and placed the slower/inexperienced drivers near the front, with the faster/experienced drivers in the back. While this seemed at the time like it wouldn't be the best idea, I was so wrong and I now think it was a great idea! This was one of the best rides I have participated in.
The more I think about it, the more advantages I see with this lineup; and I just don't see any advantages with a mix or a reverse of this lineup.
What happens is the leader, as always, sets the pace; and can adjust as needed to keep the car in the #2 slot at a proper distance. The slower/inexperienced drivers seem to be more comfortable in the front as there becomes no "peer pressure" to keep up. At the same time, the cars in the back are faster and more experienced, and have no issues keeping it tight with the group.
When the group gets split, as tends to happen at red lights and such, it is easier for everyone to repack without waiting long, and possibly without waiting at all because the faster/experienced cars are in the back. With everyone in a tighter line, there are fewer aliens as well.
Also, with more people having the routes programmed in the Garmin units, it might be best to put one of those cars about 2/3 through the pack so they can take the lead of the back of the pack when needed if there is a split.
Finally, during our pre-ride meetings, I think the 2-second rule should be brought up as a way to remind everyone to be close but not too close. I mostly think this is important due to the size of our groups. If we have 20 cars, that's 38 seconds from nose to tail, and on those twistys we travel, at the 45mph we often run, that equals 0.475 miles. Add just one second between cars, and it increases to 0.725 miles - a 53% increase in distance. That is stretching the capability of some of our radios.
Here is the survey: Survey Here
I was in a bit of a weird position this past drive. The guys ahead were quite fast but I kept losing the guys behind me, due to traffic or driving or both. I kind of ended up meandering and waiting. Fine by me as long as can communicate. And I think last week’s drive had the most alien infiltration I’ve seen yet.
how about the yellow 2000 ish Celica that saw us pass and turned around to follow? Sorry kid it’s front wheel drive.
just kidding. I may be getting another performance oriented car as a daily - but it’s turbo and 4 doors - so I can use it for my shows and work. And No it’s not a WRX, but it is Fwd and 6MT…
Jordan F. White, M.S.
2012 Subaru Legacy 2.5 GT 6MT AWD (NB summer 2024!)
I prefer the first time folks in the front so they feel comfortable abs don’t have to worry about being left behind. Slower drivers up front as well. The slinky effect and the inevitable aliens that show down the rear give faster folks the fun of catching up. If you put the slow drivers in the back they never catch up and the faster drivers should be showing down to keep them in their mirror if we follow the briefing so everyone is kept to a slow pace or people are left behind. Also, the back end can let a little extra distance build up and then do some speedy turns. The real issue is identifying who is really the slow drivers.
Mike & Angela
2021 Soul Red RF (with custom black top)
Another reason for new or slower drivers in the front is they don’t see the tail sliding, wheel spinning turns from stop signs that might make them anxious 😬
Mike & Angela
2021 Soul Red RF (with custom black top)
On Tuesdays drive the tail end was running at 50-60 mph quite often and got it up to 70 a couple times catching up. Leader was not going nearly that speed
Mike & Angela
2021 Soul Red RF (with custom black top)
@whybu1 I've found Walter-lead drives run at about 45mph, which is probably a great speed for what we do and keeping everyone together.
I was on one drive where the leader was going around 60mph, and while I enjoyed it, I was just glad the entire group that day was up to the challenge.
On Tuesdays drive the tail end was running at 50-60 mph quite often and got it up to 70 a couple times catching up. Leader was not going nearly that speed
This is another example of an advantage to lining up with the faster cars in the back.
My two cents regarding order is that while it may feel counterintuitive, I think it does work out better to have the slower pace cars in the front of the pack. While I'm plenty willing as a leader to pull over or wait at a stop sign to regroup, I think allowing big gaps to form (when fast cars in the front pull away from slower cars in the rear) is inviting aliens, and opportunities for someone to miss a turn or otherwise make a mistake. This segues to my second point on following distance: while a 2 second rule might be a bit too ambitious, I will say with absolute confidence that if you're so far away from the Miata ahead of you that an alien feels comfortable pulling out in front of you, then you are not doing it right. If this is happening to you and you aren't confident catching up to the Miata ahead of you, I would encourage you to first admit to yourself that you are in the slower category of driver (there's no shame in it) and secondly to take a proactive approach to moving yourself closer to the ride leader during a pit stop. As a leader I never want to see someone crash their Miata driving over their comfort level to keep up, but I also don't want to see anyone frustrated by having to slow down to keep you in their mirror, or to feel hemmed in behind you.
As an aside, there is a strong appeal to me to the idea of doing a smaller drive catering to drivers who want to go fast, but I'm not sure how to reconcile that with wanting the club to remain inclusive and provide positive experiences for everyone.
- Brian Wowak
1991 BRG SE #3716 of 4000 "Brigit"
I agree. I actually drive quite slow normally - except on the Club drives. People I say I drive like a “grandma” - but I intend to have fun on the drives as they just don’t happen all that often - relative to regular driving. I tend to drive pretty quick on our drives - so id be down with trying the experiment of putting faster people in the rear. I know that you, Brian, are def one of the faster people (in fact I am impressed with your vehicle and driving skills!) 🙂
the big thing is getting the slower drivers to say they are - and again theres no shame in it at all - everyone is different - so we can group accordingly.
Jordan F. White, M.S.
2012 Subaru Legacy 2.5 GT 6MT AWD (NB summer 2024!)
I meant to post this earlier, but I've been a little busy...
First, I just want to make a few things clear so there is no misunderstanding:
1. I started this thread as a way to discuss if there was a "best practice" for getting in line for our drives to find the easiest way to keep the group together while at the same time minimizing aliens.
2. Keeping in mind the intention of holding the group together on a run, there was never any thought of faster cars in the back letting the group get a lead and then catching up; that would be completely against the idea of keeping the group together and minimizing aliens.
3. This was not meant to exclude anyone, nor to make anyone feel bad about driving at their comfort level. Everyone is different, and so is every car, and the tires those cars are on.
When I bring up the "two-second" rule, it is meant as a guide, not as a "keep up or get out" rule...or for that matter, even any real rule. Just a guide for people to keep in mind so they know if they have too much of a gap to the car in front.
The math/numbers show two seconds is a good guide, as the distance increases with speed, and leaves far more room than required for our Miatas to stop. There was one concern regarding reaction time, but that wouldn't be an issue as the vehicle in front of anyone would not stop abruptly (as in only 10 feet to stop when hitting a deer or something), it would take some distance for the car in front to stop, so there would still be enough room. For reference, the average person's reaction time is 1/4 second, or at our usual cruising speed of 45mph, 11.25 inches.
As for the survey, there have only been 14 responses, I would like to see more before showing the results as this isn't a large sample size. Maybe someone could post the link in the Facebook group (I am off Facebook other than for my pub quiz)?
Finally, although I didn't bring it up, I should probably mention it: it is best if people are left to decide for themselves if they are in the "fast" or "slow" group. I believe when asked, especially after a short explanation as to why, most people will have no problem admitting if they feel they belong in the "slow" group at the front; and this keeps anyone from feeling bad about being placed there.
@triviawayne Nice explanation of the intent. Usually the rear doesn't have to "hold back" so they can catch up; that happens as the group is split at stop signs and road crossings or when an alien leaves the line. The idea on the run is always to stay together, It is kind of a choice between having the "spirited" driver who are willing to go a bit faster catch the main group or have everyone slow down and wait for slower rear drivers. Either way the goal is to have a fun drive that everyone enjoys
Mike & Angela
2021 Soul Red RF (with custom black top)
